Protect streamers by preventing any access to channel for banned users
This is not to take away from the improvements that have already been made, and are being implemented. The work that is being done is greatly appreciated.
However, further change is needed to better protect streamers for banned users. Merely preventing chatting is not enough to deter harassment, stalking, or intrusive bot behavior.
Most people are aware that measures often can be circumvented, that is not an excuse for the lack of protection that currently exists.
Streamers need a way to completely cut off a user from content. I believe the proposed measures are reasonable, and will also provide protection against abuse as well as preventing intrusive bots from squatting in channels without permission.
The proposed changes are:
1. A banned user is prevented from connecting to a channel's chat completely, which means their name does not appear in the list of viewers.
2. A banned user is prevented from viewing the stream itself, on site or using other means.
3. A banned user is blocked from subscribing and following, and will be automatically unsubscribed and / or unfollowed.
4. A banned user is prevented from viewing any other channel information and content, including the streamer's panels, VODs, clips, followers, and followed accounts.
5. A streamer must be able to toggle an option to treat logged out viewers similarly as a banned user, preventing any access until they log in.
Additionally, to prevent excessive account creation, the following measures should be implemented as well:
6. Accounts need to be verified by e-mail.
7. Limit the amount of accounts per e-mail, to 1 or at a maximum 2.
8. Limit the amount of accounts that can be created from a single IP address per day.
Thank you for your consideration.
We’re happy to announce that we have released an additional update to address these concerns. Streamers can now prevent their banned users from watching their livestreams. You can find and turn on this feature in the Moderation settings section of the Creator Dashboard, through the “Stop banned users from viewing stream” toggle.
Please note, this update 1). does not prevent users from watching livestreams from an incognito window or while logged out and 2). does not prevent users from viewing VODs, clips or highlights. We plan to explore extending the functionality of bans further, including but not limited to preventing VOD and clip playback.
In addition, we’ve made an update so that users that are blocked will now automatically be blocked from watching a streamer’s livestreams.
We will leave this thread open for your other points regarding preventing view of other content types and account creation.
The new features are great, but we still need blocked users to be actually blocked. A blocked user should not be able to see my channel at all or be able to see my messages in other streams, just as it works on platforms like Twitter, Instagram and Facebook.
Australis Fishing commented
TWITCH does not do anything tangible to deter trolls.
Streamers are not employees of TWITCH they are more like sub contractors that have a commission taken out of payments through the site.
Speaking from experience I had to get Australian Federal Police Involved when I was being harassed and TWITCH had nothing in their policies that protected me. Support was slow and ineffective and multiple accounts from the same email address surfaced so new accounts were created to bypass the banned ones.
Luckily I paid for someone to trace them in America and they found them and knew of them so that was a great help. These people that found these low lifes also reported them to their relevant police stations as persons of interest.
Unfortunately for them all trolls **** in their own nest so they leave some way of them being found. Also some offensive user names are investigated and any images used are traced back to their sources and referred to the police.
If you want to sort trolls out bypass TWITCH and deal direct with your local law enforcement.
I had a variety of different threats against me that had to be taken seriously by law enforcement. The only way TWITCH will give you details about someone with a user name on their site is with a court order.
It's a long drawn out process.
Best thing you can do is ban and forget. Do not even acknolwedge them when they pop into stream. All they are after is attention and it disrupts your stream and sullens your loyal viewers experience.
The comments about streamers being arrogant. It's their stream and their community they can do what they like. They don't have to like you and you don't have to like them. There's over 10 million live streamers on the TWITCH platform. Rather than whine at them and try and disrupt them which is a control issue from your part not the streamers issue find someone else to watch.
Streamers communities usually reflect the streamer so if you're toxic and you're streamer isn't go and find a streamer who suits your motives.
It's quite easy to see what people are about by what they type in your chat. Don'tmake the mistake of letting people get away with a little bit as it very quickly becomes a lot.
TWITCH has the perfect opportunity to dominate the live streaming scene by lifting the standards on the platform.
If you want to stop trolling and also make it a more attractive platform to allow people to interact with each other therse are my suggestions.
1. Make the TWITCH platform member only. this will remove any accusations for money laundering and other untoward antics as TWITCH will have people's details.
2. No adult content unless the platform becomes 18+
3. Ban any form of gambling on the platform as gambling takes money out of TWITCH that could be used to support streamers and it removes another negative stigma associated to the platform.
4. one profile per email and also identification check.
5. Make stramers take working with children security checks. This is standard place in australia and this removes another negative stigma about streamers grooming their community etc.
6. Ban donation goals for streamers personal expenses such as electrcity , rent etc etc as that is not the viewers responsibility. If the live streamer concentrated on providing content and they built their communities then their twitch return would eventually sort this out. Local laws must be taken into consideration when it comes to receiving donations on line and here in Western australia you have to be a registered charity to receive donations. This is going to come back to bite a lot of streamers on the *** one day. This removes another negative stigma against the platform of people trying to send their communities on guilt trips to make money out of them. Twitch does not make a cent from donations and this is hurting other streamers as when do9nation goals are met it reduces the pool to support other streamers.
I have a lot of good ideas that could turn this platform around as I work for myself .
Hope this is taken in the right context.
There isn't even a setting that allows someone to disable the "users that are blocked will now automatically be blocked from watching a streamer’s livestreams" for me to *allow* blocked people to watch... (granted, it's only three users, one of which has deactivated their account and another who has received a permanent suspension, but still...)
It's just all kinds of bad. I don't want this. Not as a streamer, nor as a viewer.
@AriohnSylvrWolfe You are a funny one, aren't you?
The point is *antagonizing others is bad*. The feature should be removed in its entirety, because *it does not work* anyway. It's trivial to circumvent.
You will just make people mad by using it and make your problem worse. That's clearly not the solution. 🤦♀️
But good luck with everything.
Brilliant idea, already implemented, no reason to continue to annoy all of us with whinging on about it. Great. Thanks.
@PotatoMasherAnnie It doesn't email me, because I didn't vote on it. It only emails the people who voted on the suggestion (apparently). You can also disable that in the settings somewhere, I think (not sure, and I don't want to go check). I think it's good that they get emailed. It means they also receive the explanation of why this is bad that I have provided, and can read it, if they are interested. ;)
Can you guys please consider dropping your debate? Every time you post a comment it emails nearly 1,800 people
@Sniper4690 This is not about whether something is fair or unfair or anything of the sort. I am not sidetracking anything here. I am advocating *against* its implementation, because this is an objectively *bad feature* to have.
I fully understand that you want to be rid of "problematic people" from your streams, but this is not the way to accomplish your goal.
Abuse is abuse, there is no method or means that makes it okay for someone to be abusive and antagonize someone, and especially not the perceived entitlement that chat moderation functionality may give you. You might as well come out and say that you don't want people in your stream. And that's okay, but it just isn't the road to success that you seem to think it is.
It is kind of ironic that this original post is about dealing with harassment, but Twitch won't ban commenters who are cyberstalking and making threats in this very thread...
To quote you, in the same way that you like to be doing:
"And because you seem to believe you are not harassing here, this is the definition: 'Harassment is unwanted verbal or physical behavior intended to humiliate and offend you'"
Emphasis on "unwanted" and "intended to humiliate and offend".
1. Me commenting here and highlighting the issues with the suggestion, is not *unwanted*. In fact, that is precisely what the comment section here is for.
2. I do not in any way intend to humiliate or offend anyone. Much unlike others who have voiced their disagreement with my very valid points have repeatedly done. In fact, I didn't even do that in response to their abuse. That clearly means I'm being the better person here. It is sad that you fail to understand that and cannot take a rational approach to the problem.
Again, I must reiterate, that the issue with the functionality of this suggestion is primarily that it enables people to harass people in a way that is difficult to monitor for some. While I do understand, that in some rare cases it may help you, there are more cases in which it does the opposite. People who coordinate harassment will use the very same feature to block out those who they aim to harass or people they perceive to be a threat to their activity (i.e. police) in much the same way. That makes it incredibly difficult to report such abuse, and your piece of mind that a non-working feature provides you, is simply not worth taking the last recourse a victim has away from them.
As a streamer, having an audience is something you should want, and therefore, having a few abusive people among them is neither unusual nor something that has a definite solution. It is just that this approach is not the one that is helpful or good. You talk a lot about stalking and hindering those who stalk your stream, but I have yet to see any evidence of you being stalked in your broadcast. You see, like I have said multiple times before, if you start your stream, you consent to *anyone* watching it. If you do not want people to watch something, don't stream it. And if you would prefer your stream to be a private affair for your friends, instead of acting like a public TV station, Twitch is not the place for you (and neither is YouTube, or other such services). Try a private Discord server, Microsoft Teams call or a Zoom meeting instead. This way you can manually approve who you let in, and it will actually *effectively* block out anyone you do not trust. See, it's easy.
(Ironically, this is however also how abusive people tend to coordinate their harassment these days, believing that "if it is not on Twitch, the Twitch community admins don't care", but that's a whole other can of worms...)
I been following this thread for a bit and it’s pretty sad to see how far the idea gets sidetracked because one person says nothing will help. I won’t really say much on this but Nightmare, a lot of us want to have some kind of hope to get problematic people out of our streams. Whether it’s fair for that user or not is up to the person misbehaving. I’m not going to give someone multiple chances if they’re just gonna abuse it and claim you’re abusing them, just a waste of anyone’s time
This honestly has gone on long enough. You stated your points and how you obviously do not care one bit for the protection of streamers due to the small percent that "abuses" bans. Yes I did block you because as seen from messages here you yourself cannot act like an adult and are doing the one thing you so adamantly are against in the case of others who messaged before me (banning people who did nothing wrong). I do not trust someone like you who threatens and yes it is threatening when someone says "Oh, and for anyone else who thinks it wise to do this, don't. You will just go on a big list of abusive users and will be banned everywhere, once I get to reviewing the details of your abuse. You better hope your record is squeaky clean. Chances are it isn't, though, and you'll get prison time". This conversation for those who do care and want to at least HINDER those who abuse, harrass, stalk, or anything in their chats can't even continue because no matter what is said you have something to say against it. This is also signs of cyberstalking a group (and since you like linking things so much here is where I got my info ;) https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cyberstalking-5181466). And to quote what exactly applies to you - "continue the harassing behavior even after being asked to stop, track the target's online movements by installing tracking devices (this one having to do with the " I have an automated tool for this. It just collects all the accounts I interact with and alerts me of "suspicious behavior". It's how I manage harassment"), message the target repeatedly, use technology to threaten or blackmail the target, send threatening, controlling, or lewd messages, post rude offensive or suggestive comments online". You may say that none of these are you, even down to the blackmail which is shown when you said "Oh, and for anyone else who thinks it wise to do this, don't." (and the rest of that paragraph). And per twitch (https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/how-to-manage-harassment-in-chat) it states "When you are being harassed, there is no one right answer or best approach, only the one that works for you and your situation. Many choose to deny the harasser any attention and quickly timeout or ban them, while others choose to handle it differently. If your go-to approach is not effective for a given harasser, you may experiment with another one. Ultimately, your reaction is up to you." Emphasis on the your reaction is up to you. Also within that same article is "the right combination is whatever makes you feel safe and positive".
Basically, the twitch streamers can and are encouraged to do what will make them feel safe. Just because someone bans or states what you are in the wrong for does not make them automatically abusing you or hareassing you. You have been the one harassing this UserVoice. And because you seem to believe you are not harassing here, this is the definition: "Harassment is unwanted verbal or physical behavior intended to humiliate and offend you" (given by https://www.findlaw.com/civilrights/discrimination/what-really-constitutes-harassment-and-what-can-i-do.html). Several people have asked you to stop, we all understand you are not for any of this so I am asking you again to STOP.
@MistyMaxGaming That doesn't work, either. In fact, *nothing actually does*. Not unless you want to block out a large number of legitimate users, too. And I would weigh the 100 legitimate users against the 3 abusive ones and side with not doing that.
There are users who are uncomfortable with sharing their phone numbers with online services like Twitch. Users who cannot have or operate the type of phone required to verify their number where they live.
On the other hand, getting a prepaid SIM or burner phone is trivial. In some countries (like the USA), they don't even do identity checks on new network subscribers (which means, it can't even serve as a useful discovery item in a legal proceeding), and especially abusive people with money to burn aren't hindered by this kind of thing *at all*.
And this "generating phone numbers" you speak of? As easy as clicking a button for anyone who works at a mobile phone store (simple sales people who don't know what they are doing, no special tech skills needed) or SIP trunking provider (IT type worker; hiring requirements usually involve a Bachelor's or engineering degree of some sort).
Remember: The sort of people you want to block here are the kind who will actively seek out professions that enable their abusive behavior.
You can't win. Instead, you'll produce a new normal in which everyone knows how to evade your blocking methods, and then you'll have completely lost.
Moving on from other things. I was thinking instead of limiting per email 2 accounts (emails can be created just like that) maybe we can use phone numbers instead. It is more difficult unless someone knows how to make a program that can generate them. I know it’s not a fix all solution but can help due to not everyone being tech savvy.
@bnshiy Sir, that is not the reason they were banned. They were banned for a different reason. Specifically, that reason was *banning me*. I don't care about them, but if they perform actions which result in the abuse of the Shared Ban Info feature, they get banned. It's really just that simple. And that you're the one who complains about it is just even more concerning.
Criticism is fine. You see, all I am doing is criticizing you for your ignorance.
And I am being constructive when I do. Pointing out what the issue is, and giving you options to resolve it. Yet, you just continue to be ignorant of the problem and continue to be abusive towards me instead.
I don't report everyone. Only those of you who break the Twitch terms of service. Like you did again, just now. Insulting someone you don't agree with, using derogative terms and the like is just not okay.
And true, it is possible that nothing happens. Do you know why? Because, like me, the Twitch community administrators are professionals. They are not like you. They will, at their discretion, weigh the options and effects of enforcement actions and they may leave you alone, if that might result in making the problem worse, because you are just going to circumvent a suspension. This just makes it more difficult to monitor your behavior across the community and collect evidence of your abuse for a victim who would like to seek legal action or prosecution (in case of a crime).
I am also not stalking or insulting you. And if you think watching a stream is stalking, then I guess you don't know what stalking is. But here, let me give you a hint: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p2263 (of note, if you consent to any of what is listed in section 238, or are required to do so in order to resolve a dispute, it doesn't apply, of course)
Banning @key_lerrs_ for commenting here is childish as ****.
Have you never learned how to deal with criticism?
You can report us all, nothing will ever happen. When will you get it?
And regarding @kariinfu: This person is right. It was a threat and I reported it. You need to stop acting like this. Not everything is harassment, and you need to understand that you're the problem. No one likes you because of who you are. Threatening to ban someone because you share some ban lists is pure comedy. I think nobody wants to be part of the bubble where you are a moderator, so you are actually doing us a favor. And personally, I don't think that this ban list exists or that we should care about it at all.
You stalk people. The "tools" you mentioned help you do that. You are a creep. This is not an insult, it is a fact. Stop what you are doing.
Meanwhile, dozens of people have banned you for being a creep.
@Twitch: Please ban this guy already. If not from Twitch, then from this discussion.
I don't understand how someone can be like that. Your feet need to feel some grass, dude, and your face needs to see some sunlight, that's for sure. You need friends. You threaten people, you harass people, you stalk people, you insult people. STOP IT.
@kariinfu That wasn't a threat. And it wasn't really directed at you either. I also wasn't as literal as you think I was.
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you are trying to do here. If you encouraging me to "leave some likes while you’re at it" means you want my attention, this is not the way to go about it. Why would I be interested in someone like you? I'm not interested in people who enjoy the mistreating of others. I am most certainly not going to your channel to watch so you can earn ad revenue (apparently Twitch would even pay you a bonus of up to 30 cents every 10 minutes of me watching). I don't want to reward such behavior of hostility, you see.
And since you mentioned stalking... publishing false rumors about someone, or even hinting at others about how someone is stalking you (especially when that is not true!) is harassment, and also a form of stalking in itself. Both of those are *actual crimes* that you can be prosecuted for. Granted, the penalty is less than two years of prison time in most jurisdictions, and a court ordered "apology letter" is the most common form of "punishment" (quite useless, since the damage is done), but do you really want that kind of thing on your record for 10 years? I wouldn't want that if I were you...
@NoxturnalNyx Yes. What I provided was constructive feedback.
Let me put it this way: Would you rather
1. feel safe and genuinely believe you are safe because someone told you that the fence in front of your house keeps bad people out (and some good people, too), or
2. know that bad people can just jump over the fence with little effort, and only good people suffer (they have to jump the fence, too!), because everyone is made to have such a fence?
I'm going to give you a bit of time to think it over, and then we can have a discussion over where priorities are misplaced here, if you want. Or not. Up to you. ;)
@key_lerrs_ That entirely depends on what the complaint is about. What is and isn't good behavior is not a democracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing
@NightmareJoker2 aw man you got me, I’m shaking in my boots. To help you with your “deep dive” (stalking) on me I can link you my socials if you’d like? ^-^ Remember to leave some likes while you’re at it! 💖
Also consider YOURself reported for threatening myself and others with being “banned everywhere” and “prison time” :)