Intentional misuse of tags ie. Vtuber tag on non-Vtuber
There has been a recent rise in streamers misusing the tag system, most noticeably with non-Vtubers using the Vtuber tag. This makes discoverability more difficult for both streamers who are actually Vtubers, and viewers trying to use the tag system to find Vtubers. Even prominent streamers are misusing tags, so this behavior has been spreading. I'd like to ask Twitch staff to please enforce action on the misuse of tags to help the streamers and viewers who are using the tag system as intended. Banning streamers from using specific tags they have been caught and verified to be abusing them might be a helpful solution to consider.
Hi, thanks for flagging this and sharing your suggestion.
We share and understand your concerns about how the intentional, repeated misuse of tags can undermine the purpose of the tags product itself. Tags are an important discoverability feature for communities, and a powerful way for all Creators—but especially those that are underrepresented—to express their personal identity and creative vision for their content.
We also do not feel Twitch should be the judge of Creators’ personal or creative identity, so we typically only enforce against the misuse of tags when it is associated with other behavior that violates our Community Guidelines such as hateful conduct or harassment.
That said, as the VTuber community’s experience demonstrates, there are limitations to this approach and we are actively investigating additional steps we can take to protect and improve the integrity of the tags feature at scale, without infringing on good faith Creators’ personal choice to express themselves and define their content.
Our goal is to have more to share with you about the tags feature later this year.
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sierra1gaming commented
Just another Case that Twitch gives zero ***** about anything unless you are bringing them in HUGE income, Its great to know where Twitch truly Places its Values, Smaller streamers and new streamers already have enough of an uphill battle with twitch's Algorithm Constantly Showing the bigwigs in recommended but now we are being Ignored and brushed off. It really shouldn't be that hard especially when you have people reporting these issues to do what is right, But Twitch shows that Money talks and we are all nobodies to them.
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steelionx_x commented
His basically saying "Just go ham with the tags, we don't care" hahahahahhah
What a joke, twitch
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Sir_BlackWolf commented
"Our goal is to have more to share with you about the tags feature later this year."
There are actions you can take right now to address this. It doesn't take much. Okay, it might take a bit of time on your part because that means actually addressing all of the reports of non-vtubers using the vtuber tag (your bigger content creators, specifically). Issue warnings and strikes against the bigger violators. That's pretty much it. It's time consuming, but it is effective and it can be done *right* now.Now, addressing the side that might (or rather, will) requiring coding. As somebody who does coding, web development and all that, that stuff takes time. I get that. As long as you're able to implement a "fix" that would prevent people from abusing tags for views, especially the vtuber tag.
Twitch, imagine for a second that the antics from the larger streamers on your platform became too much for a lot of people -- especially those with smaller communities. Now, imagine if a new platform appeared that was just as viable as Twitch, but didn't have these problems. Now imagine if this platform *actually* enforced their own TOS and just provided a better environment overall than Twitch. I'm willing to bet those smaller communities would migrate to that platform, leaving you with the toxicity of the larger streamers (xqc, Amouranth ElisebeteTV, etc). While xqc, Amouranth, et al might be bringing in a lot of traffic and thus money, they shouldn't be immune from repeatedly breaking TOS. Do they need to be de-platformed? Maybe... that's your job to ultimately determine. This is a hypothetical, of course. I don't know if there's a platform around the corner that can replace Twitch just yet. But you should always act as though there is and constantly strive to improve the site in terms of features and policies. More so when it comes to your smaller communities and viewers.
I guess my point with this is you can do better, Twitch. You have to do better because your reputation depends on it. People actually have to be held accountable regardless of how big or small they are. You have to start thinking about how certain features and actions will affect the smaller streamers, those who are just starting AND the viewers. Larger streamers who are bad-faith actors might (or will) throw a tantrum, but it needs to be done. This will only benefit Twitch in the long-term.
Sorry for the long rant and taking up a lot of space, everybody! I just had a lot that I wanted to get out there.
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dirtyshadow commented
Admin Dowski - Your response is inadequate. You state that tags are important, that community is important, that identity is important, that user experience is important.
But then ignore the community who has raised an issue where identity and user experience is being compromised... because you refuse to police Terms of Service violations (under policy) of the misuse of tags. Its black and white.
Good Faith... these creators are laughing at Twitch while they are doing this, they are not representing you or the community by being quiet frankly Bad Actors on your platform.
Set an example NOW!!! Knock a few bad actors on the head and the rest fall in line. When you bonked a few big names on the head for the Watch Meta, it ended pretty quickly.
Or are you telling us the users the "Report" button is useless and you refuse to do anything???
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DeprivedGamer commented
dowski, if you ever take the time to read this. Just know that ElisabeteTV has INDEED participated in hateful conduct against the Vtuber community. You'll find tweets and videos on youtube for the proof.
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ZabiOhki commented
All I am hearing from this reply Twitch is "We must protect our big streamers because they bring in the money"
FLUCK OFF With that logic twitch!
We need a DESANTIS Style approach with the tags here, because right now Those big streamers are being Disney, and YOU TWITCH ADMINS are being the POLITICIANS WHO TOOK THE BRIBE MONEY FROM THEM!
The "Tax" or for us little streamers THE TOS ABOUT THE TAGS! We FOLLOW TO THE LETTER!
WHY SHOULD THE BIG STREAMERS BE EXEMPT FROM WHAT THE LITTLE STREAMERS HAVE TO FOLLOW!
If it is good enough for the Small streamers to follow then it should be GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE BIG ONES TO FOLLOW THROUGH TOO!
It always about the Money with you twitch admin pieces of trash isn't it! Show some INTEGRITY! Show some CLASS! ENFORCE YOUR OWN RULES!
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BuildLancer commented
So what? Are the terms of service are just a suggestion yall put into place hoping people would follow them? You have multiple users telling you this is a problem and your answer is "We also do not feel Twitch should be the judge of Creators’ personal or creative identity, so we typically only enforce against the misuse of tags when it is associated with other behavior that violates our Community Guidelines" they are missusing the tags to gain Views and mocking Vtubers and Fans
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ShirakoriMio commented
This is NOT a matter of judging their identity. The people exploiting the tag for views are objectively, factually not virtual (you)tubers, and the countless examples of top streamers exploiting the tag all include evidence of them saying extremely disrespectful, hateful, and unacceptable things to and about vtubers. We don't need action later, we need action NOW. Failing to fix this issue is the same mentality that led so many away from twitch streaming and into YouTube streaming from unsolved problems like subscription and bit pay cuts and failing to properly represent the artist community for over a DECADE on the platform. Twitch is bending their will to top streamers and the repeated apathy from twitch staff has absolutely kicked so many middle and smaller sized communities to the dirt. It's just wrong.
This response from twitch is so unacceptable. Take action and hold your top creators, who represent your platform, accountable for the damage they're causing. We're not out for blood or anything; we just want your top streamers to play fair and stop acting like they can bully whoever they want and rub it in our faces. That's what Twitch is enabling and it's just abhorrent. -
ArisuTea_ commented
SO basically, it just seems like you guys just put this out, without any real answer. It seems like TOS doesn't really matter to you if it's bigger streamers abusing the tags.
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Ro_KFP_Arsenal_maker commented
it's not judging of personal creativity if the person using the tag without applying it on the stream.
Are guys telling us that anyone can claim to be a vtuber without using a virtual avatar!?
Infact, it's mocking of the entire tag. -
Tentaskyr commented
You say that you only enforce this rule when the person breaking this rule are acting in a hateful manner. I would argue that the misuse and griefing of the tag is hateful in itself.
And what of the creators laughing, and making hateful comments about the vtuber community. Some have been quoted as saying vtubers need to be pushed down and undiscoverable because we’re all “p*dos”. The misuse of the tag is hateful towards a community, and if this was being done in the African American tag by Caucasian’s you’d be making a very different statement of what constitutes as hate.
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Acolet commented
More than a half of top streams in the Vtuber tag right now are not Vtubers. Twitch, you know just as well as we do this isn't an expression of their "creativity", but an intentional effort to grief the tag.
The streamers doing it were literally laughing that you won't enforce your own TOS against them and it seems they were right.
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Geisterwand commented
Okay, serious less salty answer.
Vtubing isn't a "personal or creative identity" thing. Either a virtual avatar represents you, or it doesn't. Like how "Baseball" isn't an identity, or 3D Modelling. It describes the stream's content.
Your community guidelines say this:
"You are expected to accurately label your content to the best of your ability. When choosing a category or tag, please choose whichever best describes your content. Deliberate or extensive misuse of titles, tags, games/categories, or other metadata are prohibited."
Streamers placing the vtuber tags while no party present is using a virtual avatar to represent themselves 100% falls under deliberate misuse of tags. While some disagree about what constitutes a vtuber, I would consider someone represented by ANY *virtual* (ie. not a picture of a real person) avatar (including a static JPG or PNG image) while also NOT represented by a *facecam* stream (handcam or similar is fine, to allow for stuff like controller cam or various creative categories etc).
This is not very arbitrary, you just need to enforce it lol
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kawasaki_vt commented
Yeah basically a short version of yeah we dont care and they are breaking tos and the rules we put in place for this but they make us too much money to punish them for it. way to contradict your own rules and morals keep this up and im positive this will inevitably be twitch's downfall way to support streamers and go ahead and keep filling your pockets hope you are happy with this response by an admin of twitch no less
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Ghost_of_Derpy_Starhead commented
Oh come on! At least have the guts to just say it like it is.
"The people misusing the Vtuber tag are making us a lot of money, so we'll just bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happening."
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RaigothZ commented
So what you are saying is that you cannot, or will not enforce the ToS you are supposed to be upholding, until it fits into your schedule, or only when multiple issues are being reported.
Thats great...thanks for the (NOT ANY) help.
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sturdybbq commented
Thanks for the non-answer, we’re all so grateful you let us know the TOS don’t actually matter.
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ArvithLuna commented
at his point just say they follow a different TOS cuz this is blatant disregard of the existing TOS that is in place for the general public. either its a rule or not, don't lie and say it is but also completely ignore when that rule is broken. I'm not even as concerned about the action itself as much as I am the disregard of the rules in place by both creators and admins. you can say that "we typically only enforce against the misuse of tags when it is associated with other behavior that violates our Community Guidelines such as hateful conduct or harassment" but that isn't what the TOS says, that what YOU say.
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Sejitsuna commented
That is the dumbest answer I've heard, I'm very disappointed. If this is how you're going to handle this issue then you can just go ahead and remove the tags altogether. You said and explained yourself that #VTuber are "streamers who use virtual avatars in their stream". I don't see why you don't understand that the people who are misusing the tags AREN'T VTubers! It doesn't matter if they "identify" as a vtuber when they clearly aren't. This is against the TOS and they should be punished for doing that. If not then it just looks to me that you don't really care. Very good job in making Twitch a good platform!!!
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25RPM commented
You Literally have an option in your report function to report people for misuses of tags. It is even in your own TOS. If you cant enforce either of these thing may I suggest removing both of those things or you are just LYING to everyone. Were not gonna stop talking about this till you fix it. And you and I both know Twitch it would be be really easy to fix.