Change revenue split between streamers and lower payout minimums
I believe these recommendations combined would positively make a huge impact for every streamer and supporter.
Change the payout split between streamers and Twitch. Right now affiliates and most partners only get a 50% split from a Twitch subscriptions ($2.50 USD). I would like to see all streamers get a minimum 70% revenue split from subscriptions with a higher revenue split for all partners 80%. Currently both Facebook and YouTube streamers get a 70% split from subscriptions (and they have the option to create custom subscriber tiers with Youtube).
In addition, I would like to see Twitch lower its payout minimum which is currently $100 USD to $10 - $20 USD. A $100 USD payout is the equivalent to 40 subscriptions not including bits or ad revenue. For the smaller streamers to benefit from that financial support a viewer gives them, they need to be able to actually receive it in a reasonable amount of time.
To put this in perspective: Amazon Affiliates monthly payout minimum is 10 USD (they also give the option to pay out with gift cards) and Patreon's monthly payout minimum is only 3 USD.
Hey everyone -
Firstly, we want to thank SaltyWyvern for posting this request, and the 22k+ of you who have supported it with your votes, comments, and shares. We have been blown away by the response to this post, and have been carefully considering it for the better part of the last year. As there are actually two asks in this post, we will address them individually.
For the primary request of increasing the revenue share split to 70/30, the standard revenue share for subscriptions is 50/50, and we do not have plans to change the standard revenue share. We understand that this is disappointing for many of you, but we’d like to provide some reasoning behind the decision. To quote our President, Dan Clancy, from the blog we posted today:
“When we first established a 50/50 revenue share split, it was to signal that we’re in this together. You all do the amazing work you do to create great content, engage with your audience, and grow communities. On our side of the partnership, it’s our responsibility to make continuous investments in the products and people that make your growth possible.
As you probably heard by now, we’re in the middle of rolling out the largest change to payouts in years by cutting the payout threshold in half to $50. This is an important middle step that will help streamers put money in their pockets now, while getting us closer to our goal of same day payouts and lower thresholds.
Investments like these are paying off for streamers. Products like Prime Subs, Community Gifting, Hype Train, and the Ads Incentive Program, to name a few, have driven an increase of 27% more streamer revenue per viewer hour every year over the last five years. This means the same viewer hour now earns you three times more money than it did five years ago, on average. Our investments into your monetization options have already and continue to put more money into streamers’ pockets than 20% more subs revenue share would have.
Prime Subs often get lost in the conversation when it comes to revenue share. For Prime Subs, we pay streamers the same amount they’d receive for a regular subscription even though it is included as an added benefit of their Prime subscription. Combined with other monetization products, Prime Subs increase your effective revenue share by approximately 15%, to about 65% total. This number varies by streamer size and location, but subscription revenue share is not the full picture on revenue share for streamers.
Lastly, we have to talk about the cost of our service. Delivering high definition, low latency, always available live video to nearly every corner of the world is expensive. Using the published rates from Amazon Web Services’ Interactive Video Service (IVS) — which is essentially Twitch video — live video costs for a 100 CCU streamer who streams 200 hours a month are more than $1000 per month. We don’t typically talk about this because, frankly, you shouldn’t have to think about it. We’d rather you focus on doing what you do best. But to fully answer the question of “why not 70/30,” ignoring the high cost of delivering the Twitch service would have meant giving you an incomplete answer.“
As mentioned above, we recently started a rollout for reducing the minimum payout threshold to $50. Although this does not fully meet the request of $10-20 today, we will continue exploring ways to bring your hard-earned money to you faster, and more efficiently and aim to continue to lower the payout threshold in the future.
While we are declining this request, it’s still crucial to know that the primary value of sharing your feedback on UserVoice is to have your voices heard and suggestions considered. We will not always be able to provide the desired outcome, but it’s important to us to be transparent and open when we can, and we will be focusing on providing more consistent updates on UserVoice as time goes on.
Every Twitchpartner AND affiliate should get a 70 30 split (70 streamer / creator and 30 twitch). Why?
1. Because every other major platform has that or better (70 30 youtube standard, 95 5 kick, etc.)
2. (Small) Creators really need their money to make a living. They work hard to improve their stream and the quality, but they cant make a living, when you take so much of their revenue.
3. You dont want neither big nor small creators to turn away from twitch, but thats whats happening rn. kick dropped an hourly wage for streamers. Not sure yet, how they want to implement that, but they steal small creators from twitch. or in other words: they seem to care for them and support them to make a living. Twitch has to win them back. 70 30 split for everyone!
Bonus: in some countrys the prices for subs (and also the money a prime sub is worth) got significantly lowered. you said, that people will drop more subs. But that didnt happen. we need the old prices! for subs and primesubs!
I understand that the biggest factor restricting this is the cost of running the platform. However, Twitch would literally make more money from me if I had a 70/30 split.
Only getting 50% of the revenue from content that you make 100% yourself doesn't feel good for the streamer or the viewer. As a result, I encourage donations rather than subs. If there were a 70/30 revenue split, I would delete my donation button.
I did the math, and I have gotten enough donations that if all of the donation money had gone to subs, Twitch getting 30%, Twitch would have made more money from my channel over the past year and a half since I started encouraging donations instead.
Subs are beneficial to everyone, gift bombs get more viewers, viewers get to support their streamer with benefits, and both the streamer and Twitch make money. It improves Twitch culture, which would ultimately get more people back on the platform. But as it stands it is difficult to encourage subs for a lot of streamers. I genuinely think a 70/30 split would be beneficial for EVERYONE.
Twitch would make more money from me if I had a 70/30 sub split. I would love to encourage my viewers to subscribe, but only getting 50% of the revenue from the content and community I made 100% myself is not enough to feel good about encouraging subs. So instead I encourage donations, and have Donothons instead of Subathons. I did the math, and over the past year and half since I started urging people to donate rather than sub, I have gotten enough donations that Twitch would have made more money from me if they were all subs with a 70/30 split. If Twitch implements a 70/30 split for everyone I will delete my donation button and have a subathon first thing. We give you a portion of our revenue with the expectation that you will use it to improve the platform, and there have been few examples of that happening. Subbing is good for the everyone as well as Twitch culture. Most people just can't justify giving you half of what they want to go to their streamer.
Pay Everyone FAIRLY, its honestly as simple as that.
I am so disappointed with Twitch’s response to this. And them going by the 50/50 split and making unwarranted changes to the Ad Incentive program means things are more financially strained for streamers than they should be. So I suggest we push this further by signing a Change.org petition: https://chng.it/2MR8fKf75m
Twitch don't care about ya'll going to kick.
They make money off kick using their services.
once Kick gets a mobile app, am switching to them, least friends already enjoying 95/5 payout already. Sure im not a huge loss to you guys but still im looking for better choices
They refuse to reissue my payment after they issued it to the wrong place. They say that I need to contact the bank. The bank is a closed institution and no longer exists. I told them this and they said there was nothing they can do! Don't trust Twitch to pay you!
my payouts have dropped by at least 40% since the switch! that borders on robbing the streamer!!!
Absolutely 100% letting you know that if you do this I will find other ways to support the content creators I enjoy.
I still haven't spent a dime in Twitch since this announcement. I send money to streamers via PayPal. Win-win-lose (me-streamer-Twitch). I encourage everyone to do the same. ***** Twitch, not the streamers.
The minimum is better to be 5% of monthly minimum wage of your country, because USD100 is too much for poor countries. Poor country dont have a minimum wage montlhy like that.
This is not "disappointing for many of" us, but for absolutely everyone. Thing is, you claim 200 hs of streaming for 100 CCU costs $1000 (which we all know it's not real, you won't share the real number, and that's ok), but how much money does it produce for you? Sadly month has just change and I cannot bring the exact numbers, but a 100 CCU streamer makes way over that on subs alone in half the time, meaning you make it too, not to mention the 25-40% from bits, and the massive ad-revenue you also get. If you are allegedly investing $1000 (that you are not, you are an Amazon company, you are calling us stupid when you try to sell that you pay full retail price for what you described as "essentially Twitch video") every 200 hs for 100 CCU, it means you are making at least $5000 on top of that from subs alone.
On the other hand, half the tools you develop are either pointless or useless (like highlighting everyone in chat, or ruining the "about" section, or the new and useless "cue" to pester viewers into following, stolen from the Nightbot timers many streamers have), and the ones that work are 100% dependent on the viewers spending more money, and makes you the same increase in revenue share, so while you claim this "improvements" were made to increase revenue for streamers, they gave the same percentile increase on revenue to you, in regards to subs, and even higher in regards to ads (as the streamer share for ads was pitiful, and this was a desperate attempt to make us turn them on, because most streamers didn't play ads at all, so while your ad share is now lower, the amount of ads viewed skyrocketted), so don't try to sell it as if you are running a charity, because you aren't. In the last couple of years you've invested way more money into trying to circumvent adblocks (that are only used by like 10% of the viewership or less, and in blaming them when you break the platform and even subs and prime users start seeing extra ads, to the point of even banning people talking about it on platforms like reddit), than in any change to help streamers grow (which have been close to non-existent, with only the sad attempt of the Boost Train, that streamers had no control of, being worth mentioning, and the abherration that was your attempt to SELL us a place in a featured page).
And let's not forget that a big chunk of the "quality" improvements for viewers you've made overtime have been stolen from plugins, bots and addons, like animated emotes and the point system.
As for Prime subs, based on data from about 50 channels of different sizes I work with, we are talking about 1-3% of the total sub count, so for every $75-250 streamers make you, you get $2.5 less. Not to mention more than half the viewers don't have Prime, more than half of those that have it don't use twitch, and those who use it often forget, as it needs to be renewed manually every single month. You said it yourself, ALL the monetization products COMBINED increase the streamer's share by 15-65% total, and Prime subs represent 1-3% of that increase, that's on average way closer to 15 than to 65%.
You think force-feeding us this BS will make us say "poor guys, they are losing money"? Because that's what you are trying to sell RN, and we ain't buying. Do you know what every middle-size streamer will always say? "The worst problem about twitch if that you can't grow, you need to bring the people in from a different platform." Don't believe me? Ask any Partner on the small-side of the spectrum. Yes, I said partner, not affiliate. If a 20-50k followers partner sees this issue, imagine how real it is for an affiliate.
So streamers bring the people, streamers keep the people, streamers bring the revenue, and twitch brings instability to the platform due to trying to chase adblockers and stolen ideas. The pandemic lockdown is over, there's less people now. For everyone. And there's more and more platforms, smaller and larger, trying to sway communities. This whole things is basically "we'll be spending even less money on creators paychecks and forcing them to run more ads so we get even more money on top of that." I could describe it as a win-win situation for twitch, but meaning they win twice "we win once by paying you less, and we win again by making you sell stuff for us" and all while trying to convince us this is good for us!
And one final thought: If you keep 50% of the sub revenue "to signal that we’re in this together," why don't we have equal say?
You "have been carefully considering it" and come to the conclusion, you won't make it better nor leave the share at it is, no, you decide to make it worse overall. I highly disagree, that the key factors to the success of Twitch today is split 50/50 between the platform and the streamer. And the compensation is more ads, after Prime is not ad-free anymore. All other platforms make profit with better shares and they have infrastructure costs, too. Your statement doesn't make any sense. Not empathy wise nor long term business wise.
Wow this is such a bummer. Twitch, do you actually care about streamers and viewers? I'm going to switch to Youtube with my favorite streamers in literally NO time.
It's called compromise. We see your justification, but we don't care. We should be able to come to some type of middle ground and the ad incentive program does not seem like an appropriate step in the right direction. We don't feel like we're in this together because a partnership should be a two way street. I would bet my years revenue that creators put in more time and effort then twitch does. 22 thousand people is significant, and you said no. The people who work tirelessly just to afford to live and only receiving 50% from there total efforts. If you invest in your creators, You will gain more creators, and thus more viewers. Not to mention that a higher revenue split would generate a powerful incentive for current creators to work even harder. This is an issue that will not disappear.
we have fansly already memeing on it. im surprised facebook and youtube havent arleady sent you all gift baskets. is it going to take one of your bigger names to jump ship and make it public before you realize twenty percent of something is better than fifty percent of nothing.
Well, I was considering moving to YouTube, but this has sealed the deal. I am a very small streamer and I am not able to get any of my money out of Twich because I haven't even made $50.00 yet. I only stream 1 day a week if I can even get that, so bye bye Twitch.
Everyone who is leaving Twitch should let them know why so they understand their business practice of pooping on the little guys (and big guys now too) SUCKS!
It’s ******** and twitch doesn’t care at all I might switch to YouTube instead
And how ridiculous can you please be to disable the button ...