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ChasePK
commented
You again aren’t understanding. It will not save them money on data. There’s literally a real world example of this right now you can go look at.
YouTube allows AV1 streaming. Go pull up an AV1 stream. The person may be streaming 1440p at 6k bitrate. But YouTube has to transcode that stream to a more common codec like vp9 and doing that they also double the bitrate the maintain the quality. Please educate yourself before ranting about things you do not understand.
An error occurred while saving the comment ChasePK
commented
@kisaiTensbi “it leaves smart TVs as the last holdout” you genuinely can’t think that every single person has bought the latest and greatest devices and are able to natively decode. Not every single viewer is out here shelling out thousands of dollars for latest gen CPUs/GPUs or cell phones. Look at steam hardware surveys a large chunk of people still rock 10 series gpus.
We are many years away until AV1 will be a commonly capable codec to decode. You need to step outside of your bubble for a second and get some perspective lol. Yeah we all want AV1 but the reality like MANY others have stated is the only way it’ll come to the platform is twitch will have to transcode EVERY stream to more streamlined codec for the average user to be able to watch.
An error occurred while saving the comment ChasePK
commented
Irl streamers aren’t going to be able to use AV1 mobile hardware can’t encode AV1, only a few of them even support AV1 decode to even watch it. And it’s not that I just think that most won’t push max quality go look at av1 steams on YouTube. Almost all of them are 1440p and 4K streams so the trend will follow the same on twitch. Again I want AV1 but it’s not gonna be a cost save for twitch on anything other than VODs and Clips. And livestream cost saving is going to be so negligible that it isn’t even gonna make a dent in their cost to deliver, and an ROI period on something like an entire overhaul of their encode/decode hardware would be YEARS to recoup.
Then factor in that majority of users on any hardware older the last 2 gen, plus mobile, and TVs, don’t support native AV1 decode. So just like YouTube they’d have to re-encode the stream on their hardware to a more compatible codec for those users to even be able to watch the stream.
Again they should add it because we deserve to be able to have the same quality as other platforms but the cost saving argument isn’t valid.
An error occurred while saving the comment ChasePK
commented
Yes I understand it’s more efficient, but when on twitch do you see anyone using less than the maximum bitrate cap. Unless they enforce specific bitrates based on resolution it’s not going to change anything. People stream 720p30 at 6000kbs because everyone will just use the maximum whenever given the chance. I understand the math and efficiency gains of AV1, I use it for my home video server to save on storage. But I also am not gonna pretend like the second they add it everyone is going to just lower their bitrate on their own to 2.5k they’re gonna bump their stream quality as high as possible with the max bitrate.
Just call it for what it is instead of trying to gaslight circumstances that won’t happen, they should upgrade hardware to give twitch a competitive edge, let us stream higher quality streams instead of decade old codecs especially when competitors are allowing it, don’t beat around the bush their engineers know people won’t use it to save streaming costs people will just just up to higher res streams just like it’s happening on YouTube.
An error occurred while saving the comment ChasePK
commented
@spartandraco how would it bring more profit. People are still gonna stream at the max bitrate cap, delivering the data is what costs, so unless they added av1 and then lowered the bitrate cap to reflect AV1 efficiency it wouldn’t save any money people are still gonna stream at 6k but just push a higher quality than 6k allowed on nvenc or x264. It could save cost in vod storage and clip storage but that’s marginal overhead compared to IVS
An error occurred while saving the comment ChasePK
commented
And to answer AVMortwake’s comment about AWS using AV1 for years that’s true. But twitch doesn’t use AWS they use IVS which is a completely different from AWS
An error occurred while saving the comment ChasePK
commented
For those of you who are asking “why” it’s pretty simple. AV1 isn’t just something they “turn on” for people to use it would require significant amounts of money in the millions in upgrading their server hardware to be capable of AV1 decode and encode. Which for someone like twitch the investment isn’t paid off as rapidly, while they’d save more money in video storage in the format of clips and vods. The cost saving doesn’t make as much sense as for someone like YouTube that’s entire business is video on demand vs live video hosting.
Would they eventually get an ROI, yes, but it would take years to recoup the cost of upgrading every server so that’s why the roll out will probably be incredibly slow, and more than likely a partnered limited feature.
As it stands with twitch it’s more of a feature add to streamers rather than an actual investment into infrastructure, and we’re talking a multi million dollar feature add so the likelihood of them actually doing it in scale in marginal at best.
ChasePK
supported this idea
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I’m not insulting anyone if being told you don’t understand how things work when you clearly do not is insulting to you then that is on you.
I’m not against them adding AV1 I voted in support of it, they should add it to be competitive in the industry. But the people raving about the savings twitch will experience are just incredibly unaware of how codecs work, majority of people think it’s as simple as enabling it, it’s going to be millions of dollars in server infrastructure upgrades which wasn’t even feasible at scale until the release of the MA35D accelerator, then adding at least 50% in cost to deliver having to provide transcoding for every single AV1 stream to vp9. Making a ROI or even a break even point so far out that it’s not even something twitch would consider, maybe if amazons IVS has another more lucrative reason besides twitch to being the upgrade they will but twitch alone will not make that call.
If it gets added it’s almost guaranteed going to be limited to partners as a way to limit the overhead of transcoding, they’re not going to spend millions to double delivery data for 1-5 viewer streams.