Protect streamers by preventing any access to channel for banned users
This is not to take away from the improvements that have already been made, and are being implemented. The work that is being done is greatly appreciated.
However, further change is needed to better protect streamers for banned users. Merely preventing chatting is not enough to deter harassment, stalking, or intrusive bot behavior.
Most people are aware that measures often can be circumvented, that is not an excuse for the lack of protection that currently exists.
Streamers need a way to completely cut off a user from content. I believe the proposed measures are reasonable, and will also provide protection against abuse as well as preventing intrusive bots from squatting in channels without permission.
The proposed changes are:
1. A banned user is prevented from connecting to a channel's chat completely, which means their name does not appear in the list of viewers.
2. A banned user is prevented from viewing the stream itself, on site or using other means.
3. A banned user is blocked from subscribing and following, and will be automatically unsubscribed and / or unfollowed.
4. A banned user is prevented from viewing any other channel information and content, including the streamer's panels, VODs, clips, followers, and followed accounts.
5. A streamer must be able to toggle an option to treat logged out viewers similarly as a banned user, preventing any access until they log in.
Additionally, to prevent excessive account creation, the following measures should be implemented as well:
6. Accounts need to be verified by e-mail.
7. Limit the amount of accounts per e-mail, to 1 or at a maximum 2.
8. Limit the amount of accounts that can be created from a single IP address per day.
Thank you for your consideration.
We’re happy to announce that we have released an additional update to address these concerns. Streamers can now prevent their banned users from watching their livestreams. You can find and turn on this feature in the Moderation settings section of the Creator Dashboard, through the “Stop banned users from viewing stream” toggle.
Please note, this update 1). does not prevent users from watching livestreams from an incognito window or while logged out and 2). does not prevent users from viewing VODs, clips or highlights. We plan to explore extending the functionality of bans further, including but not limited to preventing VOD and clip playback.
In addition, we’ve made an update so that users that are blocked will now automatically be blocked from watching a streamer’s livestreams.
We will leave this thread open for your other points regarding preventing view of other content types and account creation.
am sorry if i ofend any one am not like that am an older gen and know nothing about pcs or todays tech am still learning pluse i love any iedaer that twitch do but i still dont know what am doing most of the time i just love to game sorry to stafe and otheres
"Constructive feedback on Safety features and workflows"
Someone really isn't being constructive...
I just gonna say this because yous all have been blowing up my emails today xD
If the one are complaining about the many, and the many are complaining about the one, then who is at fault? The one or the many? xD
@bnshiy You have earned yourself the report card twice, no, wait... three times! Much wow.
1. called me toxic
2. used a slur as a reason for a ban
3. suggested I "get help"
You truly are an amazing abusive person, indeed. Congratulations, you earned yourself an extra special prize. You may guess what it is, but I'm sure you won't figure that one out quickly enough.
PS: I don't wonder why you don't like me. It's very clear to me. You're the exception, though. ;)
@kariinfu It's not like that. I have an automated tool for this. It just collects all the accounts I interact with and alerts me of "suspicious behavior". It's how I manage harassment. Please don't let it bother you. I don't care about you in the slightest. I don't even know you. But if you show any signs of hostility towards me, I'm going to have to respond appropriately. I'm sure you understand.
Calling someone a creep is not nice. This very behavior of yours is harassment. Consider yourself reported for your conduct. ;)
Oh, and for anyone else who thinks it wise to do this, don't. You will just go on a big list of abusive users and will be banned everywhere, once I get to reviewing the details of your abuse. You better hope your record is squeaky clean. Chances are it isn't, though, and you'll get prison time. <3
"You’re very clearly butthurt about being “unfairly” banned from a stream in the past"
No, I don't care about being banned, if being banned is all it was. If you ban me, you do only one thing: You display unprofessionalism, rudeness, and hostility. And if you then go around spreading the message, then it's harassment. But wait... that's *exactly* what you are doing! Supposedly it's a "feature". 🤦♀️
@NightmareJoker2 in this context, searching up whether she’s banned you is such obsessive creep behaviour. FYI I’ve been reading updates the past few days and also banned you from my stream days ago, and I would also gladly love to be banned from any streams you moderate because I don’t want to be a part of a community helped cultivated by you 💖 You’re very clearly butthurt about being “unfairly” banned from a stream in the past. Probably about time you get over it.
@NightmareJoker2 and you wonder why people don't like you? Huh?
Do us all a favor and move on. Leave this discussion for people who are more interested in this feature. And seek help.
@MistyMaxGaming I see you have blocked me on Twitch because you didn't agree with what I said here. I am sorry, but that earned you the ban card in all channels I moderate. It makes it so that you cannot see or receive a warning about your conduct. It's really unfortunate that you made this decision. It was a very poor one. I didn't want to have to do that.
@bnshiy How about you stop being abusive towards others and contribute constructively to the conversation instead? 😉
Can we please stop interacting with a toxic person like @NightmareJoker2 and get back to the discussion of what we need from Twitch?
@MistyMaxGaming Standard M.O.: Use one account you don't know about to monitor, use another to harass you.
This "feature" can't work. It is only useful to those who want to be abusive, and it only hurts the decent users who aren't. Seriously, give up trying to make the point that this helps, because it doesn't.
Yes, it works against children with little to no tech literacy. But guess what: They aren't watching your stream. And if they are, the odds of that are beyond slim, so slim, in fact, that the odds of you using it against a decent person on accident are so much higher.
I have been a channel moderator for a featured channel on Mixer (yes, it doesn't exist anymore 😟), which was with over 15000 concurrent viewers, the most popular channel on that site *for months*. Guess where all the trolls went. Yes, the most popular channel. Nowhere else. Setting like 6-7 terms on auto-moderate in the chatbot took care of over 95% of their abuse, too. The rest we just deleted. Because guess what? We knew they were children barely old enough to use the service. We forgave them for their ignorance, because that is the sensible thing to do. If they overdid it we timed them out for a few days. Because guess what? They can come back when they grow up. There was only one guy, who after much deliberation we actually banned. We banned him, because he wanted the game that you could play through the stream all to himself and started spouting veiled threats when other people were playing with him and he could not be argued with. (this game, if you were curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIHMnFDFTxo )
"And with the ban list. The only way another streamer sees it is if that streamer specifically shares it with another streamer."
Incorrect. If a streamer bans someone, and then raids another channel, the raided channel also receives this "list", by virtue of the banned users being marked "suspicious" in that channel, and it even tells them why (because they are banned in the raiders channel). It's even worse, though. Even if the streamer knows the person and clears the marker away, the next time any streamer, even the same streamer, raids the channel and the user is still banned there, the marker is added *again*. Believe me, the feature is *annoying*.
Onto your second paragraph...
*IT DOES NOT WORK*, THOUGH.
At best you will antagonize them, they will get their "friends" to help and you make the problem worse for yourself. I've been there. Trust me. The best way to deal with this is to either get law enforcement involved, or to shut up and not giving them attention (but careful, that alone may also set them off if it appears deliberate). But lastly, don't forget, even a normal person will get upset in the same way, if you treat them like this. Don't mistake them being mad at you for being abusive as abuse. Getting mad in the face of abuse is a healthy response.
Let me repeat: THE SAFETY YOU WANT, YOU CANNOT HAVE, BECAUSE *TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS*.
You don't want people to watch? STOP STREAMING.
Like seriously... what are you even doing?
Every TV station operator knows this, why don't you? By the mere act of broadcasting, you *consent* to *anyone* viewing it. Act accordingly. Anything less is unprofessional.
Giving you the false sense of security of "That makes me feel comfortable with the abusive viewers not being able to see me", a security which you don't actually have, and cannot have, is worse. It may encourage you to act in a manner that compromises your safety further.
Unsavory people exist. We know. (Ironically, this is the same argument someone made earlier on about keeping this nonsense... see how that works?)
I don’t think you are quite getting it. Everyone is saying that this is a way to protect streamers who are victims of guess what, abusive viewers. Of course there can be abuse on both sides. The ban list was implemented moreso for the bots back when they were hard to manage across streamers. I am a victim of a groomer who when I cut ties with would not leave me alone. I personally don’t mind having to ban every account they make if they figure out VPNs and the such. I don’t want them being able to see anything with my account whatsoever. That makes me feel comfortable with the abusive viewers not being able to see me and (like I said if they know how to use VPNs) it will at least hinder them somewhat. There is no absolute way to solve anything with the internet but if there is a way to put a thorn in their side to slow them down any of these implementations are worth it. And with the ban list. The only way another streamer sees it is if that streamer specifically shares it with another streamer. It is not this huge ban list that anyone can see. So if you are banned, unless that streamer shares that list with another streamer you watch you will not be affected.
Overall. This is to hinder those who abuse the current system to help streamers who are stalked, harassed, etc to at least slow down those who know ways around these methods. And I’m not saying their isn’t abuse towards viewers, but the safety of an individual is kind of more important than someone being banned that probably not doing something wrong
@darthclide @merbearlorelei @VelvetChokehold @bnshiy Anyway I banned you all and put you on a shared ban list of known abusive users on Twitch for your abusive behavior here. Let's see how you like a taste of your own medicine. Good day, you lose.
@darthclide I do not care if they don't like me. I am a decent person. If they don't like me they are disturbed or side with someone who is disturbed.
@merbearlorelei This can't be implemented. It *does not work*. Every form of restriction that you can place on a user is very easy to circumvent, for someone who wants to be abusive: You can make another account. Or better yet, switch to one that you made months or years ago. And now you're thinking... but wait, we can IP ban people. No, you can't. VPNs, proxies and wait for it, *other internet connections* exist. Trust me, I have been dealing with stalkers and pedophiles from places like KiwiFarms and the OnA forums for years. These tools are *useless*.
What they are though, is a tool for the abusive people to bully and harass you with.
If you condone such behavior, the problem is *you*.
@VelvetChokehold Yes, they do. They owe me not to violate my human rights, to not incite harassment against me, and to not abuse me. And they owe me to follow the Twitch terms of service, for whatever those are worth. It completely baffles me that you don't understand that.
@bnshiy No. Not well said. Clear display of the same ignorance I've been talking about.
Twitch should stop implementing features that can be used for the abuse of others, but don't actually work for their intended purpose.
@VelvetChokehold and @merbearlorelei and @darthclide
Well said ❤️ Thank you all
@Twitch, now please implement all other ban features asap.
@nightmarejoker2 Streamers do not owe you anything. Not their attention or even a reaction if they don't feel like it. It's completely up to you how much time or money you invest in them. Every comment you make against this update just proves that it was good decision to do it. Obsessive behaviour shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. Learn to let things go and you'll feel better.
Thank you so much for your input. You are the exact reason why we need this implemented.
You're abrasive, entitled, and can't get the hint.
Paragraph after paragraph that translates to "I don't like it when people don't like me". There would be no harassment if you just moved on from that channel. But since you insist on trying to weasel your way back into the stream, you act surprised when people are toxic toward you.
And no, there are ZERO rules in the TOS saying what a streamer can and can't ban a viewer for. There is however a rule talking about harassment. Which is exactly what you are doing when you can't just leave a streamer alone after they ban you.
Furthermore, if the stream truly is abusing viewers, then that same stream is also likely doing hate raids. Which means trying to turn this into a "viewer victim complex" makes no sense.
If Twitch dealt with hate raids and other abuse towards streamers, I guarantee you that the only viewers left complaining about abuse, are those who need to grow up and learn how to behave.
I do not care if I am not welcome there by some people in the chat. If they don't like me, they can shut up and leave and come back when I'm gone. It's what I do. Anything beyond that is simply disrespectful and rude. I don't visit a streamer's channel for the people in their chat. I talk to them in the same way as I talk to any stranger on the internet.
And if I make you uncomfortable, you should really consider what you did *yourself* that made it this way. There is something very wrong with you, or someone else who had an influence on your state of mind in this manner, if my presence ever makes you uncomfortable.
"Why not just let them have this and move along to other channels where you might find content suitable for you."
Because, like mentioned above, *they are harassing me* through intentional abuse of the shared ban info "feature", or ignorant misuse of the same.
You can, instead of banning someone, politely tell them that they are not welcome there. Because it's like you said, "If you don't feel welcomed somewhere then why would you go back there". But there's only one person of whom I will respect such a thing: The person who runs the channel. That means the streamer. Nobody else. And only if they wish for this intentionally, with full knowledge of why, and their reason is accurate and sound. A reason of "my community is not a good fit for you", "my chat doesn't like you", or "you were banned in some other channel" is of course not acceptable, but I can respect it, if you *tell me* (it makes you a terrible person, and I want nothing to do with you).
If that reason does however involve the musings, gossip and hearsay of abusive people in their chat, then no. I am not ever going to respect that. I fully, and without exception expect them to tell me who those people are, and to ban them from their chat and report them to Twitch's community admins instead. And if that means I turn into a problem, then so be it. I will not stand for harassment and bullying, ever. If you harass someone, the harassed person is entitled by legal statute to do everything within their means (including "harassing you about the issue") until you stop.
And yes, to make the point with your analogy, if you hide the tools for your abuse, or things that you have stolen from someone in your house, *the abused are allowed* to break in, and disable the tools for your abuse or take back their property. (So long as they don't damage your house while doing so)
As far as Twitch is concerned, though, that means removing moderator privileges from abusive channel moderators, preventing the abusive channel moderators from moderating any channels, or preventing them from being granted moderator privileges again.
It means unbanning users who have been banned by such moderators.
It means providing them with the same tools to combat this form of abuse as any other.
And it means being transparent about the issue.
But most importantly it means not adding features that can be abused, but provide no actual benefit (since they realistically can't work to do the task they are intended for), and it means *not removing* features that are useful for combating abuse after the fact (like the public follower API), but the removal of which fazes abusive people very little, since they can just be prepared and log follow and chat events in all channels to compile a list of channels a user they want to abuse is visiting.
It means thinking ahead and predicting the results and effects of your changes *before you make them*.
All of these features appear poorly implemented (mostly because in the real world, it can't actually be done), shortsighted (meaning they have adverse effects nobody thought about), and like they are merely meant to placate a few loud voices (streamers have loud voices, because they can yell their ignorant wishes to an audience of a moderate size, who will then similarly ignorantly regurgitate what they say and support them in sufficient numbers to inflate demand) and to provide them with a false sense of security, of which in actuality they have none, and can only have none.
I guess you don't know what the ban experience is like.
1. Unlike a timeout, which merely prevents you from chatting, the chat is *hidden from your view*.
2. All third-party apps (API clients) that are connected to the channel with your user account at the time you are banned are kicked from the channel.
3. If the chat is then abusive towards the user who was just banned, you can't even see it.
4. If you are crafty enough to help yourself in this situation, by opening the chat from an incognito window or a different account (or doing this at all times to not lose any messages that are maybe worthy of a report), if you report the abusive users, *Twitch's community admins do not care*.
5. Shared ban info exists. The channel you have just been banned from can share their list of banned users with any other channel. In fact, they do this whenever they raid a channel. Being banned by itself turns into harassment of any banned user all by itself, merely by the channel raiding another channel that banned user may be active in. The feature is easily abused. Most moderators don't enter a reason about why a user is banned, and even if they do, the shared "mod comments" are separate and not available for review to the banned user, either, and can also not be reported for inaccuracy.
6. The community admins do not *ever* act on a report of a channel, behavior in a channel, or a moderator of a channel, from a user account that is banned in that channel. This is extremely problematic. Please don't ask how I know this.
And no, a streamer *does not* have every right to ban a viewer. Banning someone is also a form of abuse. Banning someone who isn't disruptive to the broadcast in any way is simply unprofessional.