Change revenue split between streamers and lower payout minimums
I believe these recommendations combined would positively make a huge impact for every streamer and supporter.
Change the payout split between streamers and Twitch. Right now affiliates and most partners only get a 50% split from a Twitch subscriptions ($2.50 USD). I would like to see all streamers get a minimum 70% revenue split from subscriptions with a higher revenue split for all partners 80%. Currently both Facebook and YouTube streamers get a 70% split from subscriptions (and they have the option to create custom subscriber tiers with Youtube).
In addition, I would like to see Twitch lower its payout minimum which is currently $100 USD to $10 - $20 USD. A $100 USD payout is the equivalent to 40 subscriptions not including bits or ad revenue. For the smaller streamers to benefit from that financial support a viewer gives them, they need to be able to actually receive it in a reasonable amount of time.
To put this in perspective: Amazon Affiliates monthly payout minimum is 10 USD (they also give the option to pay out with gift cards) and Patreon's monthly payout minimum is only 3 USD.
Hey everyone -
Firstly, we want to thank SaltyWyvern for posting this request, and the 22k+ of you who have supported it with your votes, comments, and shares. We have been blown away by the response to this post, and have been carefully considering it for the better part of the last year. As there are actually two asks in this post, we will address them individually.
For the primary request of increasing the revenue share split to 70/30, the standard revenue share for subscriptions is 50/50, and we do not have plans to change the standard revenue share. We understand that this is disappointing for many of you, but we’d like to provide some reasoning behind the decision. To quote our President, Dan Clancy, from the blog we posted today:
“When we first established a 50/50 revenue share split, it was to signal that we’re in this together. You all do the amazing work you do to create great content, engage with your audience, and grow communities. On our side of the partnership, it’s our responsibility to make continuous investments in the products and people that make your growth possible.
As you probably heard by now, we’re in the middle of rolling out the largest change to payouts in years by cutting the payout threshold in half to $50. This is an important middle step that will help streamers put money in their pockets now, while getting us closer to our goal of same day payouts and lower thresholds.
Investments like these are paying off for streamers. Products like Prime Subs, Community Gifting, Hype Train, and the Ads Incentive Program, to name a few, have driven an increase of 27% more streamer revenue per viewer hour every year over the last five years. This means the same viewer hour now earns you three times more money than it did five years ago, on average. Our investments into your monetization options have already and continue to put more money into streamers’ pockets than 20% more subs revenue share would have.
Prime Subs often get lost in the conversation when it comes to revenue share. For Prime Subs, we pay streamers the same amount they’d receive for a regular subscription even though it is included as an added benefit of their Prime subscription. Combined with other monetization products, Prime Subs increase your effective revenue share by approximately 15%, to about 65% total. This number varies by streamer size and location, but subscription revenue share is not the full picture on revenue share for streamers.
Lastly, we have to talk about the cost of our service. Delivering high definition, low latency, always available live video to nearly every corner of the world is expensive. Using the published rates from Amazon Web Services’ Interactive Video Service (IVS) — which is essentially Twitch video — live video costs for a 100 CCU streamer who streams 200 hours a month are more than $1000 per month. We don’t typically talk about this because, frankly, you shouldn’t have to think about it. We’d rather you focus on doing what you do best. But to fully answer the question of “why not 70/30,” ignoring the high cost of delivering the Twitch service would have meant giving you an incomplete answer.“
As mentioned above, we recently started a rollout for reducing the minimum payout threshold to $50. Although this does not fully meet the request of $10-20 today, we will continue exploring ways to bring your hard-earned money to you faster, and more efficiently and aim to continue to lower the payout threshold in the future.
While we are declining this request, it’s still crucial to know that the primary value of sharing your feedback on UserVoice is to have your voices heard and suggestions considered. We will not always be able to provide the desired outcome, but it’s important to us to be transparent and open when we can, and we will be focusing on providing more consistent updates on UserVoice as time goes on.
Bad decision, Twitch. You could've even done 60/40 for affiliates and 70/30 for partners, but instead, you spew out the generic corporate "we’re in this together." and say you're in the right, when your biggest competition can offer a 70/30 split for EVERYONE.
YouTube isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but this decision shows us that if YouTube continues to invest in and improve their streaming side of things, they have a very real chance of taking even more big name streamers than they already have.
And while I can't speak for the rest of the smaller streamers, this announcement has made me decide to focus more on YouTube and less on Twitch. It's the more appealing place for me, and once I get access to YouTube's Memberships, I might just begin streaming there instead of here.
You had a big W with the gambling, then immediately blew all the good will you generated AND THEN SOME, as all that this says is that the multi billion dollar company doesn't care about its users (as if there was any reason to believe it did care more than it had to).
This is a really bad take, Twitch. YouTube can do it, why can't you? It seems like you're pushing more people to go to YouTube Gaming.
"it’s our responsibility to make continuous investments in the products and people that make your growth possible."
For real? The only one platform in the world that does not have any discovery for small streamers? That we have to work hard in all of the other platforms to get people to see us here in twitch? Either you are paying for nothing or you just try to scam us...
"it’s our responsibility to make continuous investments in the products and people that make your growth possible."
me when I lie and in the last few years made changes that are unpleasant to the experience of not only viewers, but streamers alike
Twitch collects a 50/50 revenue from each sub. The only pricing mentioned is tier 1, at $5.00 per month, what about tier 2 and tier 3? I had originally thought (based on impressions I got from twitch almost 5 years ago when I began participating in the platform by following and subscribing to streamers) that the surplus difference in sub costs went to the streamer (I.E. a tier one sub gives a streamer $2.50, a tier 2 gives the streamer $7.50, and a tier 3 gives the streamer $22.50.) I really don't like the thought that the extra money I chose to pay, enough for 5 tier 1 subs each month. is not going to the streamer. I especially dislike this considering that there is at least one streamer whom I've subbed to for over 4 years at the tier 3 level specifically to help support them a little more. that's $240 extra per year or at this point about $1000 extra. That's just for one of the 12-15 streamers I currently have paid subs for.
The reasoning about costs on Twitch's backend are somewhat specious, as Youtube provides a 70/30 split, and they're the same size as Amazon, and based on bandwidth used, according to third-party trackers, streams more video at higher resolutions. As for ways to "help" monetize streams Twitch doesn't seem like they're really keeping up with things like that. Hype trains were specifically mentioned. The main reason a lot of people I know contribute to hype trains is for new emotes. When was the last time Twitch introduced new hype train emotes? I get a message that I "already have all the level X emotes" every time I'm part of a hype train, and I've gotten that message for quite some time. How hard is it to create a new batch of emotes?
Altogether I spend around $100-$125 on subs every month and more on bits. If Twitch is this inequitable and provides specious reasoning instead of making real changes, I will have no problem following my preferred streamers to another platform where they can make more.
This is a freaking joke right? Your company makes billions and your profit after expenses like servers and blah blah is still huge! Quit stealing from the little people to line your pockets. Your company executives are getting richer and richer from us and you want to take even more from us! We take enough abuse from the American government we don’t need it from you too. Do ******* better twitch. I think it’s just time for everyone to say ***** twitch and go to another platform. YouTube is getting better and better every month at this point.
Keep posting your discontent and spreading the word! Use hashtag #subsplit and if you @ me @inventorblades on twitter Ill retweet it but it has to be informative, civil and helping move this conversation forward. DO NOT LET UP though, express how you feel. Strength in numbers.
Well well well... it seems people aren't happy because you want to keep a laughably 50/50 cut when we're the ones providing the streaming content while you reap the rewards for yourself. A company owned by Amazon can't seem to "afford" the 70/30 cut. You're not in it together with us, you're working against us, and this is one way to lose thousands of users on the platform who would be most willing to jump platform if you go through with this, not an easy decision, but they'll take their followers with them if they have to, to a new platform that gives its creators a proper pay cut in ad revenue, which you only seem to care for against whatever we have to say. Is Twitch really that so far disconnected that you can't see this is an issue that everybody else can?
YouTube streaming starting to look a lot more appealing than streaming on Twitch these days. It's not like you listen to our feedback anyways, because you do whatever you want against what we say so why the **** should we even bother?
Lmao "50/50 we're in this together". Uh, except twitch gets 50% of EVERY sub, and I only get 50% of my own.
Fine - play that way, then. Pool the total subscriber revenue for every streamer on Twitch, then divide that by every streamer that was active that month and yourselves. There's your true "50/50 we're in it together" value for sub income.
The numbers quoted in this blog post are so disconnected and honestly laughable. Twitch does realize that 99% of active channels on their platform have fewer than 20 viewers... right? And that 200 hours of streaming is a 50-hour work week? These numbers are so deliberately different than the majority of streamers so as to cloud any arguments against what you want to do - which is take more money from the people you claim to support.
Do you know how much more money Twitch would have to pay me on a monthly basis to give me a 70/30 split? $18 USD. The fact that you are cash-grabbing from your smallest streamers is gross. Oh and I still don't make enough on subs right now to make a $50 threshold so it looks like I'm still on an "every-other-month" schedule.
And the ad split revenue plan is ridiculous. Twitch has completely ignored every attempt to show that scheduled ads on live content is disruptive to growth and viewership and refuses to listen. Also, 55% of what? I looked at my new options that went active in the last week and there is actually no projections of what I would make AT ALL, even a rough estimate based on my average viewership. Nothing. So if I want the 55% ad revenue split, I have to take a gamble that the loss of viewers annoyed that I'm shoving ads down their throat for money will be worth the potential undisclosed amount that Twitch might pay me... every other month.
Honestly so disappointed in Twitch's decisions in the last couple of months. To sabotage hosting, then remove it, and now to pull yet more revenue directly from your smallest streamers is both shameful and bad business. This is not the '90s or early '00s any more. Corporations that treat their customers and creators like dirt get ghosted.
Got 70/30 or youtube will get your biggest streamers. They already get that at youtube and you guys are idiots for declining this. Dumbasses.
I dislike the crafting of that statement but don't hate the message - a lot of the numbers used really don't show how things affect people at the individual level. I ask that you provide distribution diagrams for ad revenue, sub revenue, and avg CCV so we can analyze which groups gain and lose what under the current changes. It seems to me like no one is losing massively under these changes, but the statement is too easy to pick apart and twist as a bad thing. Please do better in how you present data in layman's terms.
That is so ******* stupid twitch ********
As someone who is a Twitch affiliate, I want to say think you for answering and for the first time ever, being open about what is going on. Have a good one and think you again for the response.
I want to point out that not everyone has seen the $50 payout yet, I haven’t and the revenue split is a huge limitation that only your chosen. If you’re going to make change, like the $50 payout, then it needs to be done to everyone. It would be great to see a daily or weekly payout. If we’re in this together and you’re not going going to change for all, then you’ll lose streamers, I’m considering switching to YT for streaming if things don’t improve for the ALL that you claim. Consider a better revenue split for everyone.
“I’m sorry we can’t give that revenue split live streaming is just too expensive even though every single one of our competitors gives a better split please just take our word for it”
this is a great way to incentivize people to tell their followers to support them financially OFF twitch. saying "we're in this together" after doing next to nothing to combat hate raids and everything else creators have to deal with is incredibly tone-deaf.
now i understand why i see so many people using the hashtag #subofftwitch
This update really takes any incentive away for wanting to continue to invest time in creating any content on twitch.
The part where you say "100 CCU streamer who streams 200 hours a month " is very infuriating as if thats something streamers should be aspiring to.
Not only that you don't do anything to limit the bandwidth streamers use.
Non affiliate channels don't run ads and can stream at 1080p60 why aren't they throttled to 720?
Partnered and Affiliate channels don't have control of what ads appear on stream, and if we want to do say 1 3 minute ad an hour we can't do that manually and still be a part of the AIP.
Yada yada yada
Yada yada yada
"We're in this together"
When you treat people like disposable things, they will treat you the same when the opportunity comes.
I get running a website that plays live videos is expensive for Twitch. But so does for YouTube, Facebook, and other platforms. Twitch can't even raise it to at least 60/40 instead went on to take more from streamers who have the 70/30 deal.